Episode Transcript

00:03 - Dori (Host)

Imagine the scariest story you've ever heard. Where did it take place? In seasons past, we've told tales from the Black Forest in Germany to the fairy trees of Ireland, to the Kodama spirits of Japan.

00:20 - Jonathan (Host)

But what if the most haunted things are right in your own backyard?

00:26 - Dori (Host)

Welcome to Tree Speech. I'm Dori Robinson.

00:29 - Jonathan (Host)

I'm Jonathan Zautner, and this is our annual episode of Spooky Trees.

00:42 - Jonathan (Host)

It's that time again when the veil between the living and the dead grows thin, the air gets crisp and the trees whisper secrets older than time itself.

00:49 - Dori (Host)

And whether you've gathered by a campfire or are walking home beneath shadowed branches after trick-or-treating, tonight's tale will make you think twice before you pass those old elms, willows, maples and oaks alone.

01:05 - Jonathan (Host)

We'll be sharing eerie legends and true stories of ghostly groves and haunted woods.

01:13 - Dori (Host)

Telling these macabre tales is one of our favorite yearly rituals. In tonight's episode, we'll be sharing new stories as well as some that have become a tradition for us since we began five years ago.

01:31 - Jonathan (Host)

So gather round if you dare…

02:03 - Dori (Host)

Oh good you made it. I didn't expect this storm, did you? I'm so glad you're here. You're soaked, poor thing. Come in, come in. What a journey you must have taken. I'll build us a fire so we can warm up together and I can tell you a few stories to take your mind off the cold and the storm. There we go.

02:33

For those who don't know me, my name is Gori Robinson and I'll be your host for this special night. What a wonderful tradition, a special way to mark this season of Samhain the thinning of the veil, the bleeding of the boundaries between summer and winter, the dead and the living, what has departed and what is yet to come. On this special night of Halloween, we always share stories about trees that have spooked our souls. Ah, but, dear friends, there are so many more trees with secrets to share. Are you brave enough to hear their dark tales? Good, Well then let's get started, but don't say I didn't warn you. Our first story comes from someone who knows her way around, a cemetery author and tour guide, Allison Meier, who tells us two tree legends she shares with those who dare take her tour through Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn, New York through Greenwood Cemetery in Brooklyn, new York.

03:53 - Allison (Guest)

I've been researching or writing about cemeteries and death-related things for years now and also leading cemetery tours, mainly at Greenwood Cemetery, and I try to always work in some tree lore when I do those tours because I think our burial spaces have a lot of connections to trees in terms of folklore. One of the obvious ones are yew trees, which have a lot of lore in the UK Like there's very ancient yew trees and old burial grounds that are said to have been planted by the Druids and that would tuck yew branches into coffins and things like that. One of the stories that I do tell on these tours because Greenwood Cemetery is this really evocative tree alley of these weeping mulberry trees right near its huge Gothic arch, mulberry trees right near its huge gothic arch, and I try to mention this kind of like ancient greek myth about why the mulberry tree has red berries and some of them are white and turn red, and the tale goes back in ancient babylon and this is a story that's like best known from ovid, the poem metamorphosis. There were basically the ancient, ancient Greek version of Romeo and Juliet, or really they preceded them, pyramus and Thisbe, and like Romeo and Juliet, they were from these separate families that had a rivalry, so their parents were not into their union, and so instead they would communicate through this crack in a wall between their two houses and they would plan to meet under a mulberry tree in person. And then there was this night where they're going to meet there, and first this bee she shows up, but a lioness comes as well and she runs away but leaves her cloak there. And so when Pyramus comes he finds this cloak just left behind. He thinks that she has been killed by the lioness, and so he kills himself and his blood stains all the mulberry fruits on the trees, turning those white berries red. So when Thisbe comes back, she sees Pyramus has killed himself and, much like Romeo and Juliet, she kills herself as well. And so in honor of their forbidden love, it's said that the gods permanently changed the colors of the mulberry fruits from white to red. So I tell that story on the cemetery tours because there's a lot of interesting myth and lore that's come through trees and especially in places of death.

06:34

It's kind of interesting to think about how actual blood spilled was interpreted in this way in the mulberry trees, in this way in the mulberry trees, what is believed to be Manhattan's oldest tree is known as the Hangman's Elm, and that's in Washington Square Park. It's this super old, gnarled English elm, like all elms, has those branches that kind of crooked, all the creepy angles, so it looks very spooky. It does have this myth that people were hanged from it at some point, particularly during the American Revolution. However, it does seem to mainly be legend. There was a gallows near there at some point, where, it's known, at least one person was hanged I believe it's a woman who committed arson but no one is recorded hanged from that tree. I think, though, it just looks like the kind of tree that somebody would have been hanged from and it became cursed or something, because it does stand out from all the smaller trees around it.

07:40

But to bring it to cemeteries, what I think is really interesting about it is Washington Square Park actually was a potter's field, and there are definitely still thousands of bodies beneath the earth, like below the playgrounds, below the fountain.

07:54

They actually, when they were redoing the fountain not too long ago, they had to redesign it so it would be shallower, so it would just rest above the skeletons rather than disturbing them. So they were definitely still there, but it's kind of this invisible graveyard. Now most of the interments, I believe, are in the 18th into the 19th century, but people are still there and they actually reinterred people in the garden not too long ago who were disturbed by construction and some of the crew from Greenwood Cemetery came and did that and now there's a plaque in the ground basically saying this is a park but it's also a cemetery. So to bring it back to the tree wall, the hangman's elm, I do not think actually it has much of a hanging past. I do feel like it's the one kind of old specter of the past that remains Washington Square Park to remind you just how long people have been transforming this ground, and I don't know when the hanging urban legend started, but it does hint towards this macabre history of Washington Square Park that I think goes overlooked.

09:11 - Dori (Host)

From the cemetery to the crime scene. Jonathan has a delicious tale based on truth and a pear tree who witnessed it. All you may think you know the story, but this pear tree will never fully reveal her secrets. Listen closely.

09:35 - Jonathan (Host)

Most people know the rhyme Lizzie Borden took an axe. But behind those sing-song words lies something darker, stranger. Rooted in the quiet streets of Fall River, Massachusetts, in 1892. Lizzie Borden, a woman in her 20s, was accused of murdering her father and stepmother. She was tried, acquitted and immortalized.

10:09

There's a tree in that story that rarely gets mentioned. Not the house, not the axe A pear tree, lizzie claimed. She was outside beneath its branches that morning eating fruit while the violence inside unfolded. Ordinary pears, offered as proof of innocence Sweetness, turned alibi. Over time, the tree itself slipped into legend. Locals whispered that it had seen everything, that if you stood beneath it you could feel a chill, as though the air itself remembered. Now it lingers in ghost tours and midnight retellings. A symbol of how the ordinary turns uncanny. A tree meant for comfort and harvest, forever tied to horror. Picture it late summer light, liz, Inside the house, silence. Then something breaks and the tree stands still watching. Some trees are known for their fruit, others for their shade and some for the secrets they keep. And in this way the Lizzie Borden pear tree joins the long tradition of trees as quiet witnesses to human stories, not only our joys and celebration, but also our fears, our secrets and the shadows we carry.

12:14 - Dori (Host)

We've all heard stories about people wandering into the dark forest. Emerald has a story to share about her own chilling experience that will make the hairs on your neck stand straight up.

12:40 - Emerald (Guest)

I was living in Uganda and I was the manager of a home for children with HIV and AIDS and I was way too young for a job like that. I was advocating for one child specifically and was able to get him to the capital for some medical care and he died under my watch and it was slow and awful and there are a million things that should have taken place differently and I blamed myself for his death. So I kind of checked out from my job in Uganda and was just looking for friendship and distraction because I was really, really wrestling with what do I think I'm doing here? So I came across these other Americans who worked for an organization and seemingly they did real good work and one of the most effervescent members of the group was Jamie Roach. But I just knew instantly we had a connection and I wanted to spend more time with him. Instantly we had a connection and I wanted to spend more time with him. And the following day Jamie said he wanted to do some sort of adventure and didn't really have a rudder and I was like I have no rudder, let me latch on to you and your adventure. And Jamie knows how to slow down and soak things in. I do not know how to slow down or soak things in, or perhaps I could soak them, but I can't go slow.

14:15

Anyway, at some point we ended up on a bus headed north and we went to this eco-tourism campsite and we said, yeah, we want to go for a bike ride. They said, great, there are bikes and here's a map. So it was afternoon and we jumped on our bikes and we started into the woods. And we did not get far into the woods before Jamie said, wow, that's such a beautiful tree, let's take a, let's just sit under this tree and really soak it in. And I was like, oh my God, okay. So I got off my bike and I sat patiently soaking in the tree, which was hard for little old busy me.

14:57

When Jamie had had his sufficient experience, we got back on our bikes to keep going and we didn't get very far before we realized it's getting a bit dark, let's turn around. So we tried, and then it got darker but we could not find our trail and it got darker and darker and then it was dark, just the straight up definition of dark. We could honestly barely see one another. I don't know whose bike broke first, but both of our bikes broke Like chains snapped or fell off. Then it became so muddy and the thing about a bike is when it's muddy the spokes like collect mud. So all of a sudden something that may have been like 15 pounds is like 40 pounds and we were both dragging our bikes through the woods.

15:54

We walked probably for like at first, maybe an hour, and all of a sudden right in front of us were two eyes and these two eyes poked out and we were like, ah, man in the woods, and he was at a fork in the road. He didn't say a word. Jamie and I together had a medium-ish grasp on four languages English, swahili, luganda, ruttoro. This guy responded to zero of those things. So we had a question for ourselves, like do we go left or do we go right, and I think the guy was kind of motioning to the right, so we decided to follow him. It was just kind of like a gut check. We could not see him or his feet, so we were just following the sound of his galoshes.

16:48

So here I am in the middle of the woods and I've got it in my brain that a snake is going to bite us and we're going to die, or I don't know a lion or whatever. I mean, it's not too crazy to think of, because I was living in western Uganda, like an hour from the safari park, but one day a lion got loose and ended up in our village. It was like eating cows, so not the craziest thing, but I was terrified. So walking, walking, following the guy, and all of a sudden I heard jamie screech, and I was like it's beginning, the death is beginning. But then, immediately, I also heard giggling, like a little girl, and what had taken place was these children had been in the woods, saw us coming, grabbed his pants, and these two guys kind of poked out of the bushes and took our bikes and put them over their shoulders Thank God, because we were exhausted. So then we kept walking for more hours.

17:55

The thing that I can't quite describe is how eerie everything felt. It felt scarier, creepier, more death-like, I don't know. The energy was terrifying. Then, though, we heard Shakira, no joke. So we're walking toward this sound and it gets louder and louder. We're getting closer, oh my gosh, like hooray, and the guys with the bikes kind of like I don't know, disappeared, and then the man with the galoshes stopped, and he turned to us and put his hand on his chest and said I am Michael. We were like thank you, michael. And then the people from the ecotourism place. They came to us and said oh my goodness, we cannot believe you've been found. We have a search party. We have people on motorbikes out looking for you. You've been gone for so many hours. We were terrified. We thought you were gone for good.

18:53

But I think it kind of ends there Except a couple weeks later I was back in Western Uganda and talking with some friends, and one friend is half British, half Ugandan. I mentioned this story and she said whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, whoa, you were lost in Mabira Forest. I said yeah, she said my dad's in Mabira Forest. I said what do you mean? She said that's where all the mass graves are. That's why the people wouldn't let the government sell it, because that's where Idi Amin would put the bodies of people that were murdered and that is probably why it was one of the scariest, most eerie places I've ever been, because we were walking on mass graves.

20:00 - Dori (Host)

What a shocking story. I bet you'll think twice about wandering into unknown woods without knowing more about the history of the land upon which you stand, knowing more about the history of the land upon which you stand From Uganda to the west coast of California. Cheryl has a ghastly story to share about ghostly evergreens that are not evergreen and not quite what they seem. Take it away, cheryl.

20:34 - Cheryl (Guest)

Have you ever seen something that you just simply couldn't explain? Here is the story of the coastal ghost trees. Ghosts are some of the most popular characters of this season, from people dressing up to the spooky tales that are told late at night. They seem to be everywhere during this month. But have you ever heard of the ghost trees that a lucky few have been fortunate to see and live?

21:07

To tell the tale, the Coast Redwood is known for being one of the largest and tallest trees on earth and is found on the Pacific coast of the United States. Yet it has a secret mystery that very few have ever seen. Imagine this magnificent redwood, but with white needles, as though it were spray painted. This rare sight is called the albino redwood. Known as a delayed mutation or simply a deficiency of chlorophyll, these trees' needles lack green pigment. Without chlorophyll, albino redwoods are not able to make food via light from photosynthesis. In order to survive, the ghost trees take advantage of their shared root systems and siphon off nutrients from nearby healthy redwoods. So I wonder are they ghosts or vampires? What causes this phenomenon, you may ask.

22:18

Well, it is not known for sure. Some scientists propose UV light exposure or perhaps too much human interaction. Alas, we can love a tree to death, and one eager scientist surmises that the answer lies in the tree symbiotic relationship. The albino needles are saturated with a deadly cocktail of cadmium, copper and nickel. In short, the ghost trees are sucking heavy metals from the ground and saving their brethren from this poison in exchange for the sugar they need to survive. These phantom trees need to be protected by both scientists and tree lovers, for well-meaning humans may inadvertently trample their roots, breaking the connection from tree to tree as well as their ability to pump water. The ghost trees of the forest are clinging to life, eternally ephemeral, as they struggle for existence. Can we learn enough to save them in time? That remains a mystery. So very few have seen these ghostly trees.

23:49 - Dori (Host)

The lucky ones have quite a frightful tale to tell. Thank you, Peril. You've given us much to think about. Here's a story for the skeptics, realists and history lovers the Tale of the Terrifying Tulip Tree. Maybe it doesn't sound scary, but this one might make you lose your head. I take you now to 1790, to a Dutch settlement, a small glen in Tarrytown, New York, otherwise known as Sleepy Hollow. This is where an unfortunate rider mounted his horse but never arrived at his destination. Perhaps you've heard about poor Ichabod Crane and his final ride, Even before he meets the terrifying headless horseman, his fateful journey turns ghostly when he comes across a tree. Not just any tree, though. Washington Irving tells us through Ichabod Crane's narrative.

24:44 - Charles (Guest)

All of the stories of ghosts and goblins that he had heard in the afternoon now came crowding upon his recollection. The night grew darker and darker, the stars seemed to sink deeper in the sky, and driving clouds occasionally hid them from his sight. He had never felt so lonely and dismal. He was, moreover, approaching the very place where many of the scenes of the ghost stories had been laid. In the center of the road stood an enormous tulip tree, which towered like a giant above all the other trees of the neighborhood and formed a kind of landmark. Its limbs were gnarled and fantastic, large enough to form trunks for ordinary trees, twisting down almost to the earth and rising again into the air. It was connected with the tragical story of the unfortunate Andre, who had been taken prisoner hard by and was universally known by the name of Major Andre's Tree. The common people regarded it with a mixture of respect and superstition, partly out of sympathy for the fate of its ill-starred namesake and partly from the tales of strange sights and doleful lamentations told concerning it.

26:06 - Dori (Host)

The remainder of Ichabod's tragic and terrifying ride is well known, but perhaps you do not know about Major Andre. Major John Andre was the head of the Secret Service in the British Army during the American Revolutionary War. He was hanged as a spy by the Continental Army for assisting Benedict Arnold's attempted surrender of the fort at West Point, new York, to the British. Surrender of the fort at West Point, new York, to the British. Andre's capture and hanging both occurred at this foreboding tulip tree which stood in the middle of the road at the sleepy hollow Tarrytown line, a towering, enormous tree said to be 10 paces round and 111 feet high. It is associated with misfortune, loneliness and lamentations. André garnered so much sympathy that it is said that this spot was consecrated by thousands of tears. The imposing, otherworldly tulip tree was struck by lightning and destroyed in 1801. Even so, the legends live on. Maybe it's because Irving's gothic story is so captivating. Maybe it's because the sounds of wailing and lamentations can still be heard at these crossroads. Or perhaps it is because no one knows what happened to Ichabod Crane or the Headless Horseman. Perhaps they will ride again, maybe tonight. I'd be careful as you head home this evening and if you hear galloping horses fly as fast as your feet can take you. Trees are mysterious. They are powerful. Oh, you still don't believe me? Well then, you underestimate the strength of a tree. So I will share with you the darkest, most horrible story of them all.

28:10

Here is the tale of the secretive Salem tree. Surely you've heard about the witch trials in Salem, massachusetts, in 1692. Well, the spirit of superstition lives on there. Many years ago, a young woman wound her way to the historic haunted town with a little camera in hand, not the kinds we have now on our phones. This was an older, second-hand manual piece, the kind where you wind the film in it and develop it later without knowing how it will look, all the while hoping you've completely captured the essence of the image. She arrived at her destination in Salem Massachusetts, just blocks from the sea a dark red house with many windows. It may look like any other house, but it was the birthplace of author Nathaniel Hawthorne, who wrote the Scarlet Letter, and the House of the Seven Gables.

29:07

The young woman had time before the tour began and wandered the property. The trees were large and daunting, towering above one's head with twisted, elaborate branches. She was drawn by the intense energy of a particular tree with a different kind of energy than one she'd ever felt before. The energy grew and grew until she arrived at its source, one tree that stood a bit far off but overlooked the rest. It was larger than the others, with an enormous trunk, thick, dense branches Looking up. The tree's canopy created a web blocking out the whole sky. What a perfect image, she thought A fantastic photograph. What a perfect image, she thought, a fantastic photograph. She readied her camera and looked up for the perfect angle. Then she felt it Do not be foolish.

30:06

Do not proceed. It was the tree. While the words were not said aloud, she sensed them as clear as can be echoing in her chest. She dismissed it. That's silly. She thought You're just spooking yourself. She raised the camera again. Little girl, the energy echoed through her ribs. This is not for you, you cannot have it. She replied in her mind. It's just a picture. It won't harm you. I'll just take three pictures and leave. As she raised her camera and moved her finger to the button, she heard faintly such hubris.

30:55

Days later, and now, very far from Salem, she picked up the developed photographs. Eager to see the results, she went one by one through the images of that day the rough harbor, the red-bricked and wooden historic homes, blossoming flowers in the spring sun, all the while anticipating the three photos of the powerful tree. Just when she came upon the anticipated three photos, she instead held in her hand blank black photos. That can't be right. She thought she went through the photos again. Three black photos. That can't be right. She thought she went through the photos again Three black photos. The tree was nowhere to be found.

31:44

So I ask you, was it a mistake, a simple technical error, or was the power of the tree stronger than the foolish woman and her camera. Perhaps it is a cautionary tale to look with your eyes and stop trying to hold on to that which isn't yours. The thought of it all still haunts her to this day. I still look at the black photos and wonder oh, I'm sure you've guessed it. The young woman was me. Since that day, I have never doubted the strength of a tree, never dared to walk deep into the dark, dense woods at night and never, ever, dismissed the messages of a tree From someone who knows. I advise you to do the same. Someone who knows, I advise you to do the same. Oh, dear friends, our fire is but embers now, but the storm has passed and your clothes seem dry. It's very late, but you should be on your way. Be brave and stick to the path. I'm so glad we were able to spend this time together. Don't let these stories scare you, but do heed their lessons. Terrible things have befallen those who have not listened to the warnings of the trees. If you've stayed with us this far tree friends, you are very brave indeed. Find us on instagram at tree speech podcast or tree speech podcastcom. Please like us on social media and rate and review us on Apple Podcasts or you will be cursed and we will haunt you for the rest of your days.

33:42

This week's episode was recorded in Massachusetts, on the native lands of the Wabanaki Confederacy, Penicook, Massachusetts and Pawtucket Peoples. In Wisconsin, on the lands of the Ho-Chunk and Pawtucket Peoples. And in Maine, on the lands of the Penobscot tribes.

Special thanks to actor and arboreal lover Cheryl Mullings for sharing her story about the ghost trees, and to actor, educator and dialect coach Charles Linshaw for his reading of the excerpt of the Legend of Sleepy Hollow, and Emeril Forcier about her story of her time in the Mabira Forest. Tree Speech is produced and co-written by Jonathan Zautner, who is also the sound editor and designer for this episode with a light theater guilt. Happy Halloween and Samhain. Tree-speechers, stay spooky and thank you for joining us once again for Spooky Trees.